Sep

23

Atlatl Dart Questions from a Reader

Atlatl Darts

How did you settle on the 6’10″ darts?

Ray here: I found out by trial and error that longer darts are easier to control as regards accuracy.  Its a matter of kinetic flexibility.  Shorter darts are springy, flex out, flex back in a hurry.  This means any slight change in throwing speed results in an immediate hyper reaction with dart flex.  Longer darts are less kinetic and tend to allow slight changes in throwing motion to have little effect in their flexing motion.

Aluminum and carbon darts are hyper kinetic compared to bamboo and river cane.  Bamboo is slightly more kinetic than river cane.

How do you match weight/lenght? I take a river cane about the right size, put duct tape on for fletching, put on a point and start throwing it. They are almost always too limber, so I start cutting them down little by little til they fly good, then I feather fletch. I guess that is what I meant by tuning.

Ray here: I choose dart shaft stock (bamboo or river cane) first by length, then by diameter at the base and rear end. Total length of the dart shaft is about 6 feet long with a foreshaft 12 inches long (with two inches of the foreshaft inside the cane), thus 6’10″” overall length.

I look for the base to be a little less than 5/8 of an inch in diameter (narrow enough that when string and glue is added it can still slide through the WAA’s maximum allowable diameter for the ISAC competition).  The rear end needs to be 3/8 of an inch in diameter.

If you start with a 7 foot or 8 foot length of bamboo or river cane, you can probably get exactly what you need for a 6 foot length.

River cane and bamboo grow naturally into a dart shaft that is thicker and heavier at one end than the other and therefore, after adding a 12 inch foreshaft and 1 1/2 long 1/4 inch diameter copper point, I don’t need to adjust the dart shaft for balance as mother nature has already done the work for me.

Bamboo and river cane are not cloned, therefore each is a little different.  I like my darts to be a little stiff. The way I check the dart for the right amount of stiffness is to hold the dart shaft horizontally chest high,  hold the narrow in of the dart in one hand, reach out about two feet with the other hand and wag the loose big end up and done briskly but not wildly.  If the loose end travels up and down between 12 to 18 inches, that’s what I want.  If it wags greater than 18 inches, its too limber.  If it wags less than 12 inches, its too stiff.

Mine are all under 5′- 6′. I have trouble matching them weight/lenght, I know this is important for consistancy. Mine all weigh 3-4 oz.

Ray here: I think I pretty much described how I choose dart lengths and diameters above. As far as matching, I may straighten 12 dart shafts (all the same length and diameter)  before I find 3 that are a matched set as far as stiffness and overall balance and weight are concerned. That is just the nature of beast. Seek and straighten and ye shall find. Out of the 12 dart shaft, if I am lucky, I will find 2 or 3 sets of 3 dart shafts that are well matched.  My darts are on average about 6 ounces in weight.

Also is there a picture of how you grip the atlatl with the hole in the handle?

Ray here: Check it out here:

Hand Grip for single hole atlatl

Hand Grip for single hole atlatl

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Sep

23

“Tuning” an Atlatl Dart Shaft

Atlatl Darts

One does not actually “tune” a dart shaft. Many people feel that a dart has a “spine” and that it is important to establish where the spine is and align the bi-face point and the fletchings to the spine.

First, the “spine”.  Think 2 X 4 board. A good carpenter will tell you to align the 2 X 4 stud “crown up” when laying out a wall, meaning, you hold one end of the board up to your eye, look down the board and determine which edge side is curving.  (All 2 X 4 boards curve a little.) The object of this game is to put the curve on the outside of the wall.

The same is true with river cane or bamboo darts. Try as you might, you can never get them perfectly straight. They will always curve a little.  This curve is the “spine” and you should always load the dart into your atlatl with the curved or spine side up. Most people use three feathers on their darts, sometimes with two of the same color and one different. The single different feather should be placed on the curved spine side of the dart so that you know right off the bat which way to load the dart onto your atlatl.   Likewise, the two bladed dart point should be attached so that blades are perpendicular to the “spine”, or so I am told.

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Sep

11

The Atlatl and Dart Throwing Sequence

About Atlatls / Atlatl Spurs

Below is a sequence drawing of the relationship of the dart to the spur of the atlatl during the throwing motion. Here, the launch is pictured from right to left.

How to Throw Atlatl - Atlatl Throwing Sequence

How to Throw with An Atlatl - Atlatl Throwing Sequence

At the start of the throw, the tip of the spur is inside the cup in the rear the dart. As the atlatl is pulled forward and levered upward, the spur rotates out of the cup in the rear of the dart and the dart is connected to the atlatl only because the atlatl is moving faster than the dart.

The rear of the dart actually slides across the top surface of the spur tip until that brisk, downward, wrist flick simultaneously, with great torque, pushes the dart away and the dart slides off the back of the spur.

This is why I have advised people making their first atlatl to:

  1. Think ball and socket as it relates to the tip of the spur and the cup of the dart. A sharp pointy spur is not a good thing. The tip of the spur should be dull and rounded. Small enough to fit inside the cup of the spur but blunt enough to easily rotate into and out of the cup without digging into the inside wall at the rear of the dart. When a sharp pointy spur tip digs into the wall of the dart, it can cause a misfire (hooking the shot) and split the dart open like a can opener.
  2. Trim excess wood beyond the end of the spur. The rear end of the dart needs to slide right off the end of the spur and not get slapped by any excess wood sticking out beyond the spur during that brisk downward wrist flick at the end of the throwing motion.

I would go so far as to advise that the top surface of the spur should be flat rather than rounded. If the spur is round, there is a possibility that the rear of the flexing dart may slide off one side or the other during the throwing motion. I actually have carved a groove in the top of my spurs to guide the rear of the dart straight off the back of the spur. This eliminates that one in ten misfire.

If you have any questions about atlatl or dart design, contact Ray Strischek.

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Jun

20

Kids and Atlatls

About Atlatls / Whatever
Atlatl

Check out this TV news story about some kids in Wisconsin learning about the atlatl.

My dad has received more than a few emails from people running school programs in Alaska and Canada asking about how to teach children about the atlatl (or where they can get their hands on one).  I think a number of them are actually teaching kids with Native American ancestry but, in our humble opinion, the atlatl is a great learning tool for any class, and for a number of reasons:

  • The atlatl is an important tool in world history
  • The atlatl demonstrates the physics of the fulcrum and lever
  • The atlatl is as simple a machine as you can get — OK, maybe the wheel and digging stick take the cake … but everyone’s already heard of those!
  • The atlatl is way easier to build than the bow and arrow :)

If you teach a park or school program like Native History, physics or even shop class, buy one of our simple, inexpensive atlatl models and build your own from the prototype.

Thanks to Thunderbird Atlatl for the link.  (Their atlatls and darts are featured in the clip.)

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Jun

03

More on Atlatl Targets

Atlatl Targets / Whatever

Previously, Cory showed off an atlatl target he set up in a driveway in Washington, DC.

Since then, readers have been asking where we get our target backings, etc … and I thought it would be good to do a little atlatl target brain dump:

Ray’s Atlatl Targets

I make my atlatl targets out of ISO board (“closed-cell synthetic rubber foam”) — preferably the black, squishy (but rigid) kind.  It’s about 3 3/4 inches thick.  I get mine at a place called Knapps Pools and Spas in Michigan but you can probably find it at a roofing store or straight from the manufacturer.  If you, humble reader, know where I can this substance delivered straight from the manufacturer (for cheap), please let me know!

I hold this foam up with a simple plywood structure but a few stakes would probably suffice.

For practice at home, we don’t put a face on these targets.  But taping a simple target up is a good idea as it’s much easier to focus on and hit a target than a blank spot.

“Official” Atlatl Targets

WIKIMEDIA COMMONS FITA ARCHERY TARGET

FITA Archery Target from Wikimedia Commons

For the Ohio Atlatl Accuracy Contest and the International Atlatl Society Accuracy Contest we use a standard 120 cm FITA archery target (with 2 white, 2 black, 2 blue,  2 red, and 2 yellow cirlces).  120 cm needs a cardboard backing of 50 inches by 50 inches. Use 3M spray adhesive to glue the target face to the cardboard. Get the cardboard from furniture stores that import from overseas.

You can get these 120 cm target faces for $6 to $10 each through Lancaster Archery (www.lancasterarchery.com) or any other large archery store with a web page.  They print them on regular paper, paper with nylon webbing reinforcement, and also on thick poster board stock which accounts for the price difference. I find the cheaper paper target faces last as well as the nylon web and poster board so why pay more?

International Standard Accuracy Competition target faces (white and black circles only) can be purchased through the World Atlatl Association web page. Last time I checked, WAA referred everyone to Jack Rowe for target sales.

The Alternatives to the Foam Rubber Atlatl Target Backings

A lot of people don’t have the time to drive to the middle of Hell, Michigan, to buy black foam from gypsies…

1. Bales of hay (straw, actually)

Consider the target, whether its the 5 color 120 cm standard FITA archery target (50 inches by 50 inches) used for Ohio Standard Accuracy Competitions or the WAA’s black and white ISAC target (48 inches by 48 inches), you will need 6 to 8 bales of hay (straw actually) depending on the size of the bales available at your local feed and grain or landscaping store.
Remember, the bullseye of the target must be waist high off the ground, so the stack of hey bales must be such as to allow for that.

Hey, bales are for horses … not to mention bulky and difficult to transport without a pick-up truck. You will need rope to tie them all together and stakes to anchor them to the ground so they don’t fall over.  The upside of using bales of hay is that if your atlatl site is permanent, you can cover the hey with a tarp when not in use as a target backing and the bales will last a whole season.

2. Cardboard boxes

Go to the import furniture store.  The furniture they get comes with assembly required so often you can find boxes that are 50 inches wide by 6 to 8 feet long by 6 to 8 inches thick.  Stuff the card board box with more cardboard. Use 6 foot long stakes to anchor the thing to the ground.  Such a target backing will last a day or so and then the center will be shot out but that can be fixed by replacing the shot up cardboard inside with more cardboard.

3. Old carpets

I have been to atlatl events (Indiana comes to mind) where the target face is glued to a single sheet of cardboard which is then tacked to two vertical stakes. Behind this, about 6 inches away from the cardboard, a tarp or old carpet is loosely hung. The dart passes through the cardboard but does not go through the tarp or old carpet because the hanging tarp or old carpet provides no resistance.  The tarp or old carpet lasts a lot longer than the target face on the single sheet of cardboard.

MORE Atlatl target ideas…

If you’ve made it this far, congratulations.  Here are some more links … Read all that and you’ll be the world expert on Atlatl targets.  You know, back in the day they just aimed at the mammoth.  Oh, how things have changed.

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Jun

01

Atlatls and Darts for Sale!

About Atlatls / Atlatl Darts / Workshop

Atlatl for saleJust uploaded a bunch of premium atlatls and darts to our Etsy store!

20 more $20 beginner atlatls are on the way … 8 more $40 oak/poplar beginner atlatls too.

Here are some pictures.  Pretty proud of how these turned out…

Osage Orange Atlatl

SNEAK PEAK!!!

Here are some new styles I’ve been working on…

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Apr

11

Summer 2010 Inventory: Atlatls and Darts

About Atlatls / Workshop

The atlatls and darts are made.  Now Ray just has to buff and polish, take some pictures, and upload to the Etsy account … Tick, tick, tick.

5 X $50 Atlatls

6 X $80 Atlatls

2 X $80 Atlatls (version 2)

20 X Bamboo Darts

SOLD OUT (Already!) – Carbon Fiber Darts

Happy to say, the first round of new carbon fiber darts are already sold out.  Taking them up to Columbus this weekend while I do some refletching work ($5/dart).

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Apr

11

Atlatl without Spur

About Atlatls / Atlatl Spurs

The atlatl style shown is a spur-less atlatl (or “split and wedge”). Instead of a spur, a cord is stretched tight in a Y-shaped split at the end of the atlatl.

The darts used would have to have their butt ends amended. Instead of a cup or cone shape in the rear of the dart, the darts would need a shallow groove cut across the end to accomodate the stretched string. A groove too deep would hamper a smooth release of the dart butt from the stretched string during the throwing motion, much the same way a too long and narrow and sharply pointed spur digs into the inner wall of the dart butt during the throwing motion.

The advantage of the stretched string method is that the dart butt could be cut at a node leaving a solid dart butt less likely to be damaged over time, as is the case with spur-and-cone dart butts. The second advantage would be the ease of manufacture as opposed to the work that goes into carving or building up a good spur.

I can think of no real disadvantage unless we are talking about atlatls with dart rests. The purpose of a dart rest is that the dart rest holds the dart allowing the atlatlist to use all his or her fingers to control the atlatl during the throwing motion. I think that a deeper groove would have to be cut into the dart butt to prevent the dart from sliding forward and off the string while the atlatlist holds the atlatl and dart ready for the throw. As stated earlier, a deeper groove in the dart butt may cause the dart to get hung up on the string during the throwing motion. That said, I am curious enough to give the thing a try.

Mike Richardson, the author, is a well respected atlatl and dart researcher. He wrote a terrific Masters Thesis on the subject of the atlatl and dart.

The Split and Wedge Atlatl by Mike Richardson @ www.primitiveways.com

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Apr

04

Atlatl Hunting

About Atlatls / News / Whatever

Hi, Cory here (Atlatl Ray’s son) …

So, the other day I saw this video in a forum thread titled “Seven-Year-Old Takes Deer with Atlatl!”

As my Dad (Ray — the owner of this site) used to be a hunter when I was kid but stopped long before he started atlatling, I thought I’d ask him about the video and what he, as an atlatlist, feels primitive weapons hunting policies should consider.

- – - – -

CORY: Have you seen this video?  What do you think of it?

RAY:  I have seen this video. As far as I know, it’s real. But I can’t imagine that the seven-year-old threw a dart hard enough to clean-kill the deer. Maybe Dad delivered the coup de grace. I didn’t see.

What do you think about it?

CORY: I think it raises some issues — like “should children be allowed to hunt?” and “should people be allowed to hunt with atlatls?” and “is one method of hunting more humane than another?”  You’re an experienced hunter and atlatlist but you’ve never hunted with an atlatl, right?  Do you think hunting with an atlatl is humane or no?

RAY: When talking about hunting with the atlatl, I have always suggested that perhaps states should use the ISAC as a test for who can get a license to hunt deer with an atlatl. Anyone scoring above 70, fine. Below, no.

CORY: Do states test gun hunters?

RAY: It’s been a while since I hunted but I believe licensing requires the hunter to pass “safety classes” in a number of states, if not all states.  Do those classes feature discourses on humanity?  I’m going to guess ‘probably not’ but I don’t know.

CORY: So, do you think hunting with the atlatl should be legal, in Ohio for example?

RAY:  Yes, I think hunting with the atlatl should be legal in Ohio. I think the state should use either the World Atlatl Association’s ISAC (70 or better) or the Ohio Atlatl Association’s Ohio Standard Accuracy (100 or better) as the testing means. Both are posted on the Internet.

CORY: Why do you suggest an accuracy test?

RAY: 1) Because an inaccurate atlatlist is more likely to make a sloppy kill.  2) Because such cooperation between atlatl organizations and the state departments in charge of hunting would be good for the organizations’ growth. More people (hunters) would attend ataltl events just to get their scores recorded.  And 3) … Because accuracy is good for the sport and good for the sportsman.

CORY: Do you think hunters would go for an accuracy test?

RAY: I can understand why hunters would prefer not to have to prove they can hit the broad side of a barn with an atlatl dart.  Does that answer your question?

CORY: You’re concerned about the hunter’s ability to clean-kill.  Is accuracy enough?  Does the atlatl dart hit hard enough?

RAY: Well, if it’s all about “penetration” and clean kills and whether or not the atlatl has enough power or causes undue suffering for the deer, I have personally seen gun hunters blast away with multiple shots from high-powered rifles, shotguns, and pistols at everything from fully grown deer to Bambi babies, only wounding the poor things.  And I think Bob Berg has proven the penetration power of the atlatl with his numerous boar hunts in which his darts pass through and stick out a foot on the opposite side of the boar.

However, if you’re getting back to the question of “should a seven-year-old hunt deer with an atlatl?” … I don’t know.  I’m not even sure where it’s legal for a child that young to hunt, period.

CORY: What about frogs and fish?

RAY: People already hunt frogs with frog gigs. It is not much of a stretch to launch the pole with the atlatl.  And it’s also legal to hunt fish with bow and tethered arrow.  According to my reading of Ohio Fish Laws, “trash fish” (carp) can be hunted with just about anything.  The atlatl was used for fish hunting along the coasts of North and South America for 1000s of years. It is already a proven equipment for that purpose.  However, I would not limit atlatl hunting to fish or frogs.

CORY: Do you think gun and bow hunters should look into the atlatl?

RAY: Yes, give the atlatl a try in a target range, competition setting.  If you like it, lobby for its inclusion in the primitive weapons season. The myth that atlatls would steal deer from archers is insane. Cars kill more deer every year than the number of people attending atlatl events. I estimate that less than 20 percent of atlatlists would hunt anything anyway because most atlatlists are attracted to the atlatl because of its cultural history, not its thrill of the kill.

- – - – -

Anyhow, I’m Cory.  I help my dad run this site and I like atlatls for sport but I’m not into hunting.  I’m not anti-hunting or anti-gun or anti-weapon but I don’t hunt and I don’t recommend people seek out atlatling as a new venue for killing animals.  However, I would like gun and bow hunters to learn more about the atlatl.  The more popular it gets, the more people are going to try it out — as seen in the video.  I would prefer that their be a legitimate set of rules and testing established state by state to make sure people know how to do it efficiently.

What do you think?

By the way, Thud’s Cave has an amazing list of state laws regarding hunting with an atlatl.

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Mar

25

Getting Ready for Summer

About Atlatls / Events

Here’s a photo from one of last summer’s many atlatl events:

(Many more great photos from that day here …)

Are you going to any atlatl events this summer?  Where?  Know of a site that has a good round up of US atlatl events?  Let me know!

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